Best Baroli 2007?

[vinopolis]

Direi che l'uso della parola "Baroli" non e' infatti un uso Italiano. In Italia si dice "bottiglie di Barolo" o, nel caso di produttori di vino "produttori di Barolo", o "produttori di vino Barolo".

I will defend my usage of the term "Baroli" as being Modernist as opposed to the Traditionalist "bottiglie di Barolo", and no less legitimate. In fact a rather appropriate "hommage" to the preponderence of the wines listed. And, as we witness, one decade's Modernist usage of language or grapes becomes the next decade's Neo-Classic.

[Bill Klapp]

Forse "Baroli" e inglese...

[vinopolis]

Forse "Baroli" e inglese...

Thank you Dottore, Professor, and Barrister Klapp.
No maybe about it, it is English, and in English entirely appropriate to borrow pluralizations from our mother languages and fit them into our own grammatic formats. It is even appropriate to make up new words if they communicate better than the available words in common use. English as a language devours all and ever expands. But I am now intrigued by your mastery of Italian. Did you teach Dante A as well as William S?

[BBoykin]

Thank you Dottore, Professor, and Barrister Klapp.
No maybe about it, it is English, and in English entirely appropriate to borrow pluralizations from our mother languages and fit them into our own grammatic formats. It is even appropriate to make up new words if they communicate better than the available words in common use. English as a language devours all and ever expands. But I am now intrigued by your mastery of Italian. Did you teach Dante A as well as William S?

Once again:

Proper nounBarolo

1.A town in the province of Cuneo in Piedmont
[edit] NounWikipedia has an article on:
Barolo
Barolo m. (plural Baroli)

1.A full-bodied red wine made in this region

[Antonio Galloni]

I hope readers don’t mind if I clarify some points in this thread and correct several erroneous statements that have been attributed to me:

1. It seems we have a glitch with some wines in our database, which is why Angelo Gajas 2007 Langhes come up on a search for 2007 Barolo. I actually reviewed those wines last year, and none of them are Barolo. I will make sure we fix that. If you were to include some of the wines with bracketed scores, you would see that Giuseppe Mascarello’s 2007s are among my favorite wines of the year. Trying to extrapolate a preference towards style or village is misguided, as I haven’t yet even reviewed the late release 2007s.

2. Voerzio – my appreciation for these wines is hardly new-found. I have enjoyed them for many years, well since before my first visit to the estate nearly a decade ago. In particular, I have always been impressed with how the wines from the smaller vintages such as 1991 and 1992 have aged. I wrote a big retrospective on Voerzio on our site last year. Aside from a period between 1995-1998, I have always found the wines striking.

3. Vietti – The wines have never been better. However, the estate went through a transitionary period in the late 1990s/early2000s, and some wines from that period are inconsistent. That is why I can give high scores to the 2007s and at the same time comment that the 2000s are developing faster than I would have expected. This is what critics are supposed to be able to do: judge what is in the glass.

4. Drinking windows – The 2007s from Vietti and Voerzio have drinking windows ranging from 20-25 years for the single vineyard wines, not less. Given the anomalous nature of the vintage, erring on the side of caution seemed the only smart choice. I have no doubt some of the wines will last even longer.

5. The 2000 Baroli – I said the wines were fading, not shot. That is an important distinction. Many wines still have good depth of fruit, but the aromas are advancing at a faster rate, leaving the wines out of balance. I threw out a few examples from memory in between grueling 16-hour days in Burgundy. Others? Sandrone, Conterno-Fantino, Mauro Veglio, Seghesio and Corino.

[vinopolis]

Well, hello Antonio.
And thank you for coming to our inactive little wine board. Just a few of us hang here to amuse each other.
I don't think anybody was thinking that you have any ingrained preferences of style or village, quite the opposite. In my mind I was accepting that these were "the best", and wondering what had elevated them from "the pack".
I was out-spoken about drinking windows, but I don't like them. Maybe yours are the best, maybe only certain wines should be assigned a drinking window. But I cannot tell you how many bottles of mid-window wines I've tossed aside and looked for a better bottle. Maybe the nature of wine as a whole is changing faster than critics as a whole are changing their windows.
And the 2000 Baroli-- that's Mr Klapp's topic, I am sure he will be along soon.
But most of all, congratulations on your new assignments- I am excited to see your broader work soon.
The very best / Dan

[Eric Guido]

If you were to include some of the wines with bracketed scores, you would see that Giuseppe Mascarello’s 2007s are among my favorite wines of the year.

Can someone censor this comment so i can at least buy my yearly stock of Monprivato without a 50% mark up. Isn't it bad enough that my Rocche purchase will be inflated? (Speaking of which, anyone seen a fair price on the Rocche?)

In all seriousness, I appreciate your reviews and your opinions a great deal and I'm very happy to have heard about your new duties at WA. I think it's a new age for Advocate, thanks to you.

[Antonio Galloni]

Assigning drinking windows is always one of the most difficult parts of writing a note because when each of us derives the most pleasure from a given bottle is so personal and subjective. Still, I think many of us who post on wine boards think everyone is like us; intensely passionate about wine. But that isn't the case. Most people just want to enjoy a nice bottle of wine with dinner. Drinking windows and vintage ratings are general in nature and are meant to be a quick point of reference. If you are in a restaurant with dozens of high end Burgundies organzied in a haphazard manner on the wine list, knowing which are the stronger and weaker vintages might be of help. Similarly, having a rough idea of when a wine might be mature could be helpful. I have no doubt many readers eventually discover their own likes and dislikes - getting people to that place is basically what I try to do.

Well, hello Antonio.
And thank you for coming to our inactive little wine board. Just a few of us hang here to amuse each other.
I don't think anybody was thinking that you have any ingrained preferences of style or village, quite the opposite. In my mind I was accepting that these were "the best", and wondering what had elevated them from "the pack".
I was out-spoken about drinking windows, but I don't like them. Maybe yours are the best, maybe only certain wines should be assigned a drinking window. But I cannot tell you how many bottles of mid-window wines I've tossed aside and looked for a better bottle. Maybe the nature of wine as a whole is changing faster than critics as a whole are changing their windows.
And the 2000 Baroli-- that's Mr Klapp's topic, I am sure he will be along soon.
But most of all, congratulations on your new assignments- I am excited to see your broader work soon.
The very best / Dan

[Bill Klapp]

Thank you Dottore, Professor, and Barrister Klapp.
No maybe about it, it is English, and in English entirely appropriate to borrow pluralizations from our mother languages and fit them into our own grammatic formats. It is even appropriate to make up new words if they communicate better than the available words in common use. English as a language devours all and ever expands. But I am now intrigued by your mastery of Italian. Did you teach Dante A as well as William S?

I have a retirement home in Neive, and live there six months or so a year. Not speaking Italian is not an option in that neck of the woods...

[Loren Sonkin]

It's interesting how the Domenico Clerico consistently scores high, yet can almost always be found for $80 or less by the end of the release year.

It always seems like there is a rush each year for the wines people want, then if you wait a bit, better pricing can be found. Of course, there is a trade off in that now you have to worry about where the wine has been during this time. Still, I only buy a few right away (my budget is limited) and then fill in over the next few years. It baffles me that 04 and 06's ever needed to go on sale, but the world demand doesn't seem to meet the supply of Barolo. Since there are so many excellent wines, i can wait. For example, WTSO already has the 06 Parusso (regular bottling) on sale for $30 including shipping right now. Now it may never be an awesome wine, but stick it in a cellar for ten years and for $30, that is will most likely be one heck of a nice wine at the table. And most likely, better than most $30 07 Burgs will be in ten years. JM2C.

[Daniel Posner]

Agreed Loren. I told Eric to wait to purchase as well. Prices will stabilize. With the wines of Barolo, they always do, with some exceptions.

Dan M, I agree about drinking windows. I tend to ignore them, as Antonio mentions. Nevertheless, I deal with clients, all of the time, who open up wines way too early in their youth. Personally, I believe wine critics should offer up "drinking windows with caution" or something to that effect. Too often, they are opened too early or even too late. Over the past few years, I have clients saying, "But Mr. So and So says that the wine is over the hill now."

Those are the moments when I usually introduce them to Cellartracker, so they can see a more recent review of a 1986 Bordeaux, or whatever the wine is.

[Jack Bulkin]

Antonio, thanks for joining this conversation. We are a small and opinionated Board, but we do love wine. I look forward to your future reviews and thoughts.

[vinopolis]

Assigning drinking windows is always one of the most difficult parts of writing a note because when each of us derives the most pleasure from a given bottle is so personal and subjective. Still, I think many of us who post on wine boards think everyone is like us; intensely passionate about wine. But that isn't the case. Most people just want to enjoy a nice bottle of wine with dinner. Drinking windows and vintage ratings are general in nature and are meant to be a quick point of reference. If you are in a restaurant with dozens of high end Burgundies organzied in a haphazard manner on the wine list, knowing which are the stronger and weaker vintages might be of help. Similarly, having a rough idea of when a wine might be mature could be helpful. I have no doubt many readers eventually discover their own likes and dislikes - getting people to that place is basically what I try to do.

Thanks Antonio,
I don't have a serious issue with drinking windows. I just see them as part of inherited wine lore, and they make a lot more sense than say- spinning capsules. I'd suggest a good position for reviewers would be more along the lines of "best after 20xx;" then let the back end look after itself.
But more importantly- Burgundy. I can't wait. I know that you will add a great new look on the wines; good luck with the Burgmaniacs- they are a demanding clientel, many eager to parse your every word. Piedheads a day on the beach by comparison.

[Jack Bulkin]

Thanks Antonio,
Burgundy. I can't wait. I know that you will add a great new look on the wines; good luck with the Burgmaniacs- they are a demanding clientel, many eager to parse your every word. Piedheads a day on the beach by comparison.

Dan, California Cabernet nerds are like a day at the Coo Coo's nest next to you Piedheads. Burgundy is more of a cerebral wine expression and understanding terroir crowd. Many Cali cab horders are more into trophy hunting and flipping than truly understanding what's in the glass. To take away the high scores on their precious over priced cults would be worse than their wives turning into Medussa in the morning.

[Daniel Posner]

Jack

I think that you may have oversimplified all of this. Most wine drinkers start Californian wines, specifically Napa Cab, as it tends to be the easiest set of wines to understand. Then, over time, these drinkers advance on to other regions, eventually discovering Piedmont and Burgundy, which is the end of the line.

IMO, the reason that these "early drinkers" need the scores is because they are just starting out and need to hold onto something to justify their purchases and appreciation. Very few serious Burgundy buyers need scores to tell them what to purchase.

[vinopolis]

Jack,
Yes, I am also looking forward to his work in CA. But ever the contrarion, I do not believe that their will become a shortage of 97+ points wines. Antonio is not shy about using the point scale. Nor should he be, compressing the scale further doesn't do anything useful. I am hoping for a more critical look at the 90 point level, where a lot of formulaic industrial wines (read residual sugared Chardonnay & raisoned zinfandel, etc) have been knocking off perennial 90 points scores. A fresh broom going through that world just might clean it up a bit.

[Daniel Posner]

Dan

I would like to see an overhaul of all. But I am sick of tasting undrinkable 90 wines, as well.

[BBoykin]

Dan

I would like to see an overhaul of all. But I am sick of tasting undrinkable 90 wines, as well.

See Suckling.I hear he was just at Zachys,and he was down with 5 more 90 pointers...........

[Jack Bulkin]

Dan, I totally agree with your chronology of a wine drinker starting with Cal and moving up the pyramid to Burgs and Nebbiolo. My point was the fact that Bill Klapp and I are still members of EBOB. Klapp and I continually see the mentality of most of the posters there and get nausea. That's who I was referring to. Antonio was getting hell on EBOB about his future California scoring before he ever uttered a word about his Cab and Pinot Cali experience and vision there. You see some of them on Wine Spectator's Boards.
And Dan Mc. I have no doubt that Antonio will be generous with his scores in Napa and some Pinots from California. My thought is that scores like a 95, still an excellent score for any wine, will cause a Libya type revolution by some flipper mentalities for wines like Harlan, Schrader, Screagle et. al. You, Dan and Carrie amongst many others are fine and legitimate resources for the sale of wine. Take a look at the Commerce Corners on Wine Boards. There are plenty of illegitimate, unlicenced wine dealers selling and trading wine as well. Sell two bottles and keep one for free mentality. They need the high scores to keep their little free joy ride going.

[Daniel Posner]

See Suckling.I hear he was just at Zachys,and he was down with 5 more 90 pointers...........

Yes, and when told that one wine was a staff favorite, Suckling asked for some descriptors from the staff to describe the wine. Quite sad.

[Bill Klapp]

I hope readers don’t mind if I clarify some points in this thread and correct several erroneous statements that have been attributed to me:

1. It seems we have a glitch with some wines in our database, which is why Angelo Gajas 2007 Langhes come up on a search for 2007 Barolo. I actually reviewed those wines last year, and none of them are Barolo. I will make sure we fix that. If you were to include some of the wines with bracketed scores, you would see that Giuseppe Mascarello’s 2007s are among my favorite wines of the year. Trying to extrapolate a preference towards style or village is misguided, as I haven’t yet even reviewed the late release 2007s.

2. Voerzio – my appreciation for these wines is hardly new-found. I have enjoyed them for many years, well since before my first visit to the estate nearly a decade ago. In particular, I have always been impressed with how the wines from the smaller vintages such as 1991 and 1992 have aged. I wrote a big retrospective on Voerzio on our site last year. Aside from a period between 1995-1998, I have always found the wines striking.

3. Vietti – The wines have never been better. However, the estate went through a transitionary period in the late 1990s/early2000s, and some wines from that period are inconsistent. That is why I can give high scores to the 2007s and at the same time comment that the 2000s are developing faster than I would have expected. This is what critics are supposed to be able to do: judge what is in the glass.

4. Drinking windows – The 2007s from Vietti and Voerzio have drinking windows ranging from 20-25 years for the single vineyard wines, not less. Given the anomalous nature of the vintage, erring on the side of caution seemed the only smart choice. I have no doubt some of the wines will last even longer.

5. The 2000 Baroli – I said the wines were fading, not shot. That is an important distinction. Many wines still have good depth of fruit, but the aromas are advancing at a faster rate, leaving the wines out of balance. I threw out a few examples from memory in between grueling 16-hour days in Burgundy. Others? Sandrone, Conterno-Fantino, Mauro Veglio, Seghesio and Corino.

Antonio, thanks for this post, which clarifies a number of things. First and foremost, when I see the word "fading" used, it is almost always in the context of fading FRUIT. What you describe is a very different and more complicated phenomenon, which is imbalance due to rapid maturation rather than a typical imbalance involving fruit. tannins, acid, alcohol, wood, etc. What you meant is now clear on both boards to my mind. I see no inconsistency on your 2000/2007 Vietti views; my only point there was that Vietti seemed an all-time Barolo outperformer in 2007, which cannot be but a positive development. Likewise, I note that you did rate a number of Voerzio wines highly in last year's retrospective tasting, so I stand somewhat corrected on that point, except to say that serious love is being shown to Voerzio vis a vis other strong producers only recently, at least in print. My perspective as reader is not that you have not enjoyed Voerzio's wines over time, but rather, how much you have enjoyed them vis a vis other producers. For example, you clearly enjoy Mauro Mascarello's wines, but they rarely garner your top scores, which makes perfect sense to me.

In the "only time will tell" department, I am not yet sure what to make of the 2007 Barolo vintage. You explained your position on drinking windows well here, but all things available so far considered, I wonder if 2007 is destined to fall in line with the 1997s and 2000s, or perhaps other atypical vintages, rather than the classic 1989s, 1996s, etc.

An interesting question that lurks here and on Squires is how long a Barolo must develop and last in order to be considered great. You say 20 years is not long enough for you, and I lean that way myself, if only because the overwhelming number of Nebbiolo bottles in my cellar are long-agers from classic vintages. However, I would be inclined to keep an open mind on that point. I will be interested in seeing how the 1997 Gajas and the 2000 Giacosa Red Labels stack up over time in that regard...

[Eric Guido]

Agreed Loren. I told Eric to wait to purchase as well. Prices will stabilize. With the wines of Barolo, they always do, with some exceptions.

You see, my problem is that I can't stand to have a wine on my mind with money in the bank. I have to admit that I've been making purchases. I can't stand the idea that I might have to search for something or might miss something... OR that a wine might sit, stored incorrectly, while I wait to make a purchase.

Also, I'm buying a bunch of Mags with 2007 Barolo and so I really don't want to miss out. .

[Daniel Posner]

Dan, I totally agree with your chronology of a wine drinker starting with Cal and moving up the pyramid to Burgs and Nebbiolo. My point was the fact that Bill Klapp and I are still members of EBOB. Klapp and I continually see the mentality of most of the posters there and get nausea. That's who I was referring to. Antonio was getting hell on EBOB about his future California scoring before he ever uttered a word about his Cab and Pinot Cali experience and vision there. You see some of them on Wine Spectator's Boards.
And Dan Mc. I have no doubt that Antonio will be generous with his scores in Napa and some Pinots from California. My thought is that scores like a 95, still an excellent score for any wine, will cause a Libya type revolution by some flipper mentalities for wines like Harlan, Schrader, Screagle et. al. You, Dan and Carrie amongst many others are fine and legitimate resources for the sale of wine. Take a look at the Commerce Corners on Wine Boards. There are plenty of illegitimate, unlicenced wine dealers selling and trading wine as well. Sell two bottles and keep one for free mentality. They need the high scores to keep their little free joy ride going.

Jack,

All great points. The future of California wines will certainly be an interesting one to watch. I fear the worst for some producers and the prices that they have been accustomed to obtaining, thanks to scores.

[Daniel Posner]

You see, my problem is that I can't stand to have a wine on my mind with money in the bank. I have to admit that I've been making purchases. I can't stand the idea that I might have to search for something or might miss something... OR that a wine might sit, stored incorrectly, while I wait to make a purchase.

Also, I'm buying a bunch of Mags with 2007 Barolo and so I really don't want to miss out. .

And in 6 months, I will be saying, "Eric, I told you so."

I have been saying many offerings. The only wine that I bought so far was 2007 Rattis. I think they are unrated, as of yet.

[Bill Klapp]

Dan, I totally agree with your chronology of a wine drinker starting with Cal and moving up the pyramid to Burgs and Nebbiolo. My point was the fact that Bill Klapp and I are still members of EBOB. Klapp and I continually see the mentality of most of the posters there and get nausea. That's who I was referring to. Antonio was getting hell on EBOB about his future California scoring before he ever uttered a word about his Cab and Pinot Cali experience and vision there. You see some of them on Wine Spectator's Boards.
And Dan Mc. I have no doubt that Antonio will be generous with his scores in Napa and some Pinots from California. My thought is that scores like a 95, still an excellent score for any wine, will cause a Libya type revolution by some flipper mentalities for wines like Harlan, Schrader, Screagle et. al. You, Dan and Carrie amongst many others are fine and legitimate resources for the sale of wine. Take a look at the Commerce Corners on Wine Boards. There are plenty of illegitimate, unlicenced wine dealers selling and trading wine as well. Sell two bottles and keep one for free mentality. They need the high scores to keep their little free joy ride going.

I agree that the CA brouhaha over on the Squires board was driven by flippers, none of whom were being candid about their flipping, and those insecure types on mailing lists that fear losing the ability to flaunt their 100-point SQNs before their friends. I did not join the fray over there, but I look forward to having Antonio take over California for a number of reasons, the most important of which is I think that he will give the wines a fair shake (even when tasting European wines, I do not find him to be Eurocentric), as well as rational point allocations rather than 100s. I do not see how he could pass out 2 "100s" lifetime for his beloved Baroli (the 1978 Monfortino and the 1989 Giacosa Collina Rionda Riserva, if I am not mistaken) and then start passing them out like condoms at a rave a la Parker...